<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1440</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/4/99 7:48:50 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, December 4 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1440<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
Australia reclassified to type 3 Government<BR>
Re: Professional Stereotyping<BR>
RE: Re Hull Grids<BR>
RE: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure<BR>
RE: Hello and TNE question<BR>
Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
Re: Volcanoes<BR>
Re: Percussive Maintenance...<BR>
Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
Re: Volcanoes<BR>
Postal stuff<BR>
Re: Australia reclassified to type 3 Government<BR>
Re: 3D to 2D mapping<BR>
Re: 3D star maps<BR>
Empress Wave (was Re: 3D to 2D mapping)<BR>
Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
GT: Trade routes question<BR>
Re:  SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Government bad, anarchy good<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:59:12 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 3D Star Maps<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/3/99 4:31:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
rboleyn@paradise.net.nz writes:<BR>
<BR>
> > The gist was that:<BR>
>  > <BR>
>  > 1) I capped jump ranges at about 9 light-years, and assumed that this<BR>
>  > represented Jump-2.  I used a linear relationship between jump number and<BR>
>  > range, so that jump-1 was 4.5 light-years.  That kept the expected number<BR>
>  > of destinations reasonable (i.e. greater than zero, but less than ten or<BR>
>  > so).<BR>
>  > <BR>
>  > 2) You won't get "mains" of jump-1 accessible stars.  With the range<BR>
>  > assumptions I made above, though, you'll get "chains" of jump-2<BR>
>  > accessible stars reaching in several directions outward from Sol.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  You mean like 2300AD?<BR>
<BR>
A little bit more so.  The "jump range" in 2300AD was about 7.7 light-<BR>
years, and I found that a bit unsatisfactory.  With that range, the "arms"<BR>
are kind of thin, they tend to peter out at a certain distance from Sol,<BR>
and the path to some important nearby stars is very indirect.  Indeed, <BR>
there are some good stars near Sol that are completely inaccessible<BR>
(61 Cygni and the Draconis-Cassiopeiae cluster, for instance).<BR>
<BR>
Stretch the range out to 9 light-years and you get more direct access<BR>
to all the nearby stars, and the "arms" are thicker and more interconnected.<BR>
Better for the Traveller-like feel I was after.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 13:56:35 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Australia reclassified to type 3 Government<BR>
<BR>
The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service has reclassified the governments of<BR>
Australia and all Australian territories to type 3 (Self-Perpetuating<BR>
Oligarchy) following the release of section 165-55 of the Goods and Services<BR>
Tax legislation.<BR>
<BR>
"The taxation commissioner may:<BR>
[a] Treat a particular event that actually happened as not having happened<BR>
and;<BR>
[b] treat a particular event that did not actually happen as having<BR>
happened, and, where appropriate treat that event as<BR>
[I] having happened at a particular time, and;<BR>
[II] having involved particular action by a particular entity [whether or<BR>
not the event involved any action by that entity],<BR>
[c] treat a particular event that happened as;<BR>
[I] having happened at a time different from the time it actually happened,<BR>
or<BR>
[II] having involved particular action by a particular entity [whether or<BR>
not the event involved any action by that entity].<BR>
<BR>
An IISS spokesman indicated that this was necessary "type 3 government is<BR>
defined as "Rule by a restricted minority, with little or no input from the<BR>
masses, in this case it seems that the politicians also have not taken any<BR>
input from reality."<BR>
<BR>
Also entities beware, you are now covered by Australian legislation and may<BR>
be taxed for anything you do or don't do.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 19:28:02 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Professional Stereotyping<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin writes:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> >TV also grossly mischaracterizes engineering.<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> <BR>
> And the profession that TV doesn't grossly mischaracterize<BR>
> is...?  ;)<BR>
<BR>
Television presenter<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 14:48:31 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Hull Grids<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Evyn MacDude<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 3 December 1999 11:02 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re Hull Grids<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > >Lanthanum Hull grids - didn't they originally appear in SOpM and were<BR>
> > >canonised in TNE and T4?<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Dom<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Actually, if you look at the rules section in Regency Sourcebook, no.<BR>
> > RSB's Author used coils.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > But there is a non-dgp reference to hull grids; I just can't<BR>
> remeber where.<BR>
><BR>
> Wasn't that in T4?  Both where said to exist if you wanted them.<BR>
><BR>
> -<BR>
Hull grids are mentioned in issue 24 of "The Journal of the Traveller's Aid<BR>
Society" in an article by MM,<BR>
Specifically it states:<BR>
"...Starship hull contain as an integral part of their structure a network<BR>
of wiring which maintains the jump field around the ship."<BR>
<BR>
Incidentally the article also described jump coils. Starship required both<BR>
jump coils and the hull grid. At least they did when this was written.<BR>
<BR>
It also brings to mind an old cartoon re Traveller ships, it may have been<BR>
Murphy's Rules which had all the Traveller ships rushing back to the nearest<BR>
starport and a caption along the lines of another imminent design rule<BR>
change.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 14:48:32 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Glenn Goffin<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 2 December 1999 2:47 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: independent Terran invention of jump drive? sure<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
> >Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1420<BR>
><BR>
> >The only problem I have with this is that, at least<BR>
> >as far as GT is concerned, the Humans on Terra, who<BR>
> >would someday become the Solomani, invented the jump<BR>
> >drive on their own, without any help. The GT rulebook<BR>
> > makes this point very clearly and emphatically. I<BR>
> >don't know if any other canon Traveller source says<BR>
> >anything about the subject, but the GT declaration is<BR>
><BR>
> >close enough to canon for me. :)<BR>
><BR>
> It's in much earlier canon, too.  The Terrans invented<BR>
> the jump drive more or less by accident while mining<BR>
> the asteroid belt.  I think that the Solomani Alien<BR>
> Module discusses it, as well as other GDW and DGP<BR>
> materials.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, the true story is that a Vilani ship<BR>
> crashed near Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, and the<BR>
> United States government spent a long time figuring<BR>
> out how it worked.  After the United States took over<BR>
> the United Nations through domination of the World<BR>
> Trade Organization, it started a series of top-secret<BR>
> probes into nearby space to find the Vilani and learn<BR>
> their weaknesses.  Once it was sure that the Vilani<BR>
> could be conquered, it allowed j-drive to be invented<BR>
> by "miners in the asteroids", who were actually a<BR>
> black ops team.  Then it was short road to war and<BR>
> conquest of the Ziru Sirka.  The stars had been made<BR>
> safe for Astroburger, Inc.!<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, the true true story is that some or all of<BR>
> the preceding two stories is a Hiver manipulation<BR>
> whose true purpose and intent will not be revealed for<BR>
> some time.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, the really true story is that the Hivers<BR>
> are creations of Grandfather.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, the underlying actual truth is that<BR>
> Grandfather is a Hiver manipulation.<BR>
><BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Actually the United States was in a financial crises at the time as a result<BR>
of the United Nations taking the US to the international court at Hague and<BR>
having the country declared bankrupt over unpaid UN contributions.<BR>
<BR>
Of course the liquidators had a few problems, but it was not until Turkey<BR>
purchased the White House and had it shipped piece by piece to Ankara that<BR>
the crises finally ended.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 14:48:34 -0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Hello and TNE question<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Joseph R.<BR>
> Dietrich<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 2 December 1999 12:24 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Hello and TNE question<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >I give, what was the big deal about TNE that nobody liked it?<BR>
><BR>
> MHO:<BR>
><BR>
> * GDW inflicing their "house system" on us. (d20s indeed!)<BR>
> * Virus.<BR>
> * No reactionless maneuver drives.<BR>
> * Virus.<BR>
> * Star Vikings.<BR>
> * Virus.<BR>
> * Ugly layout/typesetting.<BR>
> * Virus.<BR>
> * No more wonderful DGP supplements.<BR>
> * Oh, and did I mention Virus?<BR>
><BR>
> Still, some people like(d) it.<BR>
><BR>
> Ciao,<BR>
><BR>
> Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
><BR>
Well I prefer it and I have played every version of Traveller except Gurps,<BR>
(I do have a copy of this though) I liked the GDW house system, and indeed<BR>
the system is still in use, take a look at Dark Conspiracy 2nd Edition which<BR>
appears to use it.<BR>
<BR>
In Perth at least it was T4 that virtually killed Traveller, the only<BR>
versions currently being played are TNE based.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:45:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca> wrote:<BR>
>>       <BR>
>> As I've said before, _I_ still have the legal right to copy DGP material,<BR>
>> because Roger Sanger hasn't bothered to inform me it's revoked. OTOH, the<BR>
>> reason he ignores me is that he owes me money, which means that all the<BR>
>> work I did for DGP after Starship Operator's Manual is actually mine;<BR>
>> assuming that others are in the same boat, I don't think that my<BR>
>> authorization would cover their work. Being in no position to check who<BR>
>> owns which article (ie who was paid for their work) I'm probably better off<BR>
>> not copying.<BR>
><BR>
> Rob, why all the pussyfooting around? Roger is obviously not in a<BR>
> "cash rich" position or he'd pay you. If he can't afford to pay<BR>
> you, I don't see how he's going to afford a lawyer. Copyright isn't<BR>
> somthing that's enforced by the police, last time I checked. And to<BR>
> top it off, if enough copyright violations occur, then he _can't_<BR>
> sue you. These rights need to be policed by the holder (correct<BR>
> me if I'm wrong).<BR>
<BR>
You're wrong. *Trademarks* can be lost thru non-enforcement. But not<BR>
copyrights. Also, if the copyrights were properly registered *before*<BR>
the violation, the violator can be charges *punitive* damages, which<BR>
start at somethging like $100 per copy. <BR>
<BR>
> Photocopy as many books as you want. If Roger doesn't come after you<BR>
> after the first few, then you have (what I believe is) a valid<BR>
> legal defence.<BR>
<BR>
Nope.<BR>
<BR>
> Everybody on this list treats Roger Sanger like he's some sort of grenade<BR>
> with the pin already half out. I seriously doubt he can scrape together<BR>
> the postage to send me a registered letter to cease and desist.<BR>
><BR>
> If I'm totally wrong on this one, I'd love to have someone explain <BR>
> it to me.<BR>
<BR>
Among other things, if you happen to make enough copies that the *list*<BR>
price of all of them exceeds $1000, you are guilty of a *felony*.<BR>
Complete with large fine and prison term. That's due to a law passed a<BR>
few years back and aimed at folks pirating software. But as far as I<BR>
know it applies equally well to printed materials. <BR>
<BR>
So if you make too many copies, and Roger found out, you could wind up<BR>
facing *criminal* charges. <BR>
<BR>
Besides, you are overlooking an inmportant point. Like it or not, he<BR>
*does* own the copyright. So before doing anything too drastic, stop<BR>
and consider how you'd feel if someone did that to *your* material. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 21:30:06 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Volcanoes<BR>
<BR>
Just to clarify a couple of points<BR>
<BR>
<snipped web site details><BR>
> From this I would interpret that while one hundred km3 of material was<BR>
> erupted, most of it didn't go "into the atmosphere" except in the sense of<BR>
> flying upwards or sideways a few meters.<BR>
<BR>
I agree, although most of it went a hell of a lot more than just a few<BR>
metres, the Chatham Islands, which were covered  in a layer of ash 11cm<BR>
thick, are around 800km away.<BR>
<BR>
> If a typical eruption speed was the  600-900 km/h described above,<BR>
>the highest altitude the debris could  reach would be 3000 m or so,<BR>
<BR>
That was the speed of just the "liquid flow", not the speed of the fragments<BR>
ejected into the atmosphere, in other words that was the speed of the stuff<BR>
still in contact with the ground !<BR>
<BR>
The airborne stuff, including the superheated steam, exceeded the speed of<BR>
sound (i.e more than 1km/sec or some 3600 km/h )<BR>
<BR>
>so I'd be interested to see the "other sources"<BR>
> suggesting several km3 made it into the stratosphere. (Elsewhere the<BR>
> website does mention a column 50km high, so some fraction does make it<BR>
> into the stratosphere.)<BR>
<BR>
I _think_ this was covered in the following reference, but as I no longer<BR>
have access to it, I can't confirm. It definitely has a pile of further info<BR>
on the largest eruption. ( the 181AD eruption was a _lot_ smaller )<BR>
<BR>
Wilson, C.J.N., 1993, Stratigraphy, chronology, styles and dynamics of late<BR>
Quaternary eruptions from Taupo volcano New Zealand. Phil. Trans. Roy. Soc.<BR>
London A343, 205-306.<BR>
<BR>
> More fundamentally, how long particles persist in the atmosphere depends<BR>
> strongly on their size. Even if several km get into the stratosphere, if<BR>
most<BR>
> of it is pebbles of pumice, they're going to fall right back down again.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, anything that get's into the stratosphere can stay up there for a<BR>
very long time, even quite large bits of debris, due to the effects of the<BR>
air speed at that altitude, and the temperature inversion layers.<BR>
<BR>
> It's the ash and similar tiny particles that count; figuring out the ratio<BR>
of ash<BR>
> freed up by nuclear explosions/fires vs volcanoes is non-trivial<BR>
<BR>
True, but it's also largely irrelvant, it's the amount of smaller particles<BR>
reaching the stratosphere that is importnat, not the overall amount of ash.<BR>
<BR>
> and a direct comparison of material volumes isn't helpful.<BR>
<BR>
It is helpful in that volcanoes are the only current evidence we have on the<BR>
effects of large amounts of ash in the stratosphere. In order to show that a<BR>
nuclear war is likley to cause a "nuclear winter", one has to show that it<BR>
is likely said nuclear war will inject _more_ ash into the stratosphere than<BR>
previous volcanic events.<BR>
<BR>
Currently, the only direct evidence we have shows that in the case of<BR>
nuclear explosions only a very small amount of it ever gets into the<BR>
stratosphere, in fact in most of the atnospheric bursts carried out so far,<BR>
_no_ material other than steam reached the stratosphere.<BR>
<BR>
While I agree there are a lot of variables, including the altitude of the<BR>
explosion, the nature of the ground, and the weather, there has yet to be<BR>
any real evidence that a nuclear war could create a "nuclear winter".<BR>
<BR>
Cosmic scale events, such as asteroid impacts, have been shown to have<BR>
caused a "nuclear winter" effect, but they have much greater capacity for<BR>
injecting materiel into the stratosphere than nucleear weapons.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 04:31:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Percussive Maintenance...<BR>
<BR>
The Hewlett-Packard 120 C/PM computer came with a keyboard that has a single<BR>
key located in the far upper left corner picturing a hand "flipping you the<BR>
bird".  The key does nothing no matter what software you run.  I think it<BR>
was just a joke that some engineer pulled.<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 12:06 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Percussive Maintenance...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I have a photo on my HDD of a "f*** it" key on a computer keyboard, and<BR>
> kinda think at times, that should be an actual key...<BR>
><BR>
> -- The Roc<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 22:57:18 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
<BR>
> >> races. It may be the most important motivator for space travel.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Yes, but not in OTU!  It's clean family fun!<BR>
><BR>
> Precisely. Now quit your whining and design a weapon of mass destruction.<BR>
<BR>
It's funny how Traveler is so representative of network television, killing<BR>
is fine on camera no matter how many or how gory, but sex has to be implied<BR>
or have those funny pixellated bits over it.<BR>
<BR>
This, of course, explains all the problems with Traveller tech, it was<BR>
obviously designed by network executives not scientists.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I have just seen a _serious_  article on the news anbout whether<BR>
_Hollywood_ has fulfilled it's promises, i.e, has Hollywood delivered all<BR>
the tech seen in 60's TV Shows ? Someone obviously thinks that's how<BR>
technolohgy is developed.<BR>
<BR>
I can imagine it now :<BR>
<BR>
"Sorry General, but Hollywood technology is thirty years ahead of military<BR>
technology, and we're not about to lose that edge, even if you _are_ being<BR>
invaded. It's your country at risk, not ours, the enemy wouldn't _dare_ to<BR>
try anything against us, our social engineering would destroy their entire<BR>
system of government in one box-office season."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 05:23:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Volcanoes<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>> If a typical eruption speed was the  600-900 km/h described above,<BR>
>>the highest altitude the debris could  reach would be 3000 m or so,<BR>
><BR>
>That was the speed of just the "liquid flow", not the speed of the<BR>
fragments<BR>
>ejected into the atmosphere, in other words that was the speed of the stuff<BR>
>still in contact with the ground !<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
While I am not a volcanologist, just a sedimentary geologist, what I suspect<BR>
is being referred to in the "liquid flow" is the "glowing cloud" of<BR>
suspended pyroclasic debris and hot gases. There is a French phrase for it<BR>
but "glowing cloud" is the literal translation.  There are density flows in<BR>
the deep ocean called tubidity flows that represent an analogous phenomenon.<BR>
The concept is fairly simple, a dense liquid suspended and flowing along a<BR>
solid surface within a less dense fluid.   In the case of volcanoes these<BR>
density flows are "glowing clouds" which represent a dense "gas" flowing<BR>
within the atmosphere down the slope of the volcano.   There is little or no<BR>
friction at the interfaces of the flow, especially at the leading edge.<BR>
Picture an "air hockey" puck and you can get an handle on the concept.<BR>
Regarding their velocity over the surface of the earth...    well I do not<BR>
have any examples I can cite but it is my understanding that they can be<BR>
quite rapid and utterly devastating.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:14:21 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Postal stuff<BR>
<BR>
Well, not so long ago people were discussing the reliability of the <BR>
US Postal Service. I'm impressed - Don McKinney sent me two excellent <BR>
condition Traveller products from his last auction on the 29th Nov, <BR>
and they arrived on 2nd Dec - 4 days from the US to the UK seems good <BR>
to me.<BR>
<BR>
And BTW, thanks to Don - I'm impressed with Dark Nebula!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 07:07:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Australia reclassified to type 3 Government<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> The Imperial Interstellar Scout Service has reclassified the governments of<BR>
> Australia and all Australian territories to type 3 (Self-Perpetuating<BR>
> Oligarchy) following the release of section 165-55 of the Goods and Services<BR>
> Tax legislation.<BR>
> <BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
You sure that's not the result of the failed referendum Down Under? :) :)<BR>
<BR>
BTW...When does FOOTY season start?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:33:56 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D to 2D mapping<BR>
<BR>
>True, but how far did the Zhodani get, anyway? My impression is that they<BR>
>did not make it a significant fraction of the distance to the core, but I<BR>
>may be mis-remembering.<BR>
><BR>
About half way.  5000 parsecs from Zhdant for the major expeditions and<BR>
another 1000 parsecs by individual ships.<BR>
Parts of the Consulate are 50 years away from Zhdant by Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 12:48:00 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: 3D star maps<BR>
<BR>
>> ...you have to be a bit careful with drawing density coinclusions from<BR>
>> the hipparcos catalog beacuse the mission only went down to about<BR>
apparent<BR>
>> magnitude 13.5.  ...<BR>
><snip><BR>
>> While the M's do not have a lot of potential as habitable planets, they<BR>
do<BR>
>have<BR>
>> a good change of having gas giants as fuel sources; very important in a<BR>
>> Traveller universe.<BR>
><BR>
>Absolutely.  This is a good point.  I knew there was a low-end magnitude<BR>
>filter, but I didn't know how much of an effect it would have.  It might be<BR>
>useful to compare the Gleise near-Sol densities to the Hipparcos data.<BR>
>Actually, if I get a better Traveller-esque fictional setting without the<BR>
>extra M stars, this could work in my favor.  The ultimate goal is a good<BR>
>gaming universe.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The GLIESE data claims to contain all known stars within 25 parsecs of the<BR>
sun.  I've plotted out the stellar density and it's constant upto 25 parsecs<BR>
and then drops off, so I'd suggest only using the data within 25 parsecs.<BR>
(3405 of the 3804 stars in the data set I've got are within this distance<BR>
anyway.)<BR>
<BR>
Warning: The Gliese data lists binaries as separate stars so lots of stars<BR>
will appear to have other systems within Jump-1 range when it is only their<BR>
companion,<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 07:53:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Empress Wave (was Re: 3D to 2D mapping)<BR>
<BR>
Mark S Peace wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >True, but how far did the Zhodani get, anyway? My impression is that they<BR>
> >did not make it a significant fraction of the distance to the core, but I<BR>
> >may be mis-remembering.<BR>
> ><BR>
> About half way.  5000 parsecs from Zhdant for the major expeditions and<BR>
> another 1000 parsecs by individual ships.<BR>
> Parts of the Consulate are 50 years away from Zhdant by Jump-4<BR>
<BR>
Is that where they found the Empress Wave? What IS that?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 09:54:23 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >> races. It may be the most important motivator for space travel.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Yes, but not in OTU!  It's clean family fun!<BR>
> <BR>
> Precisely. Now quit your whining and design a weapon of mass destruction.<BR>
<BR>
I'm working on a wood-burning XBoat and a big-game gauss hunting rifle<BR>
that fires small magnetized frogs.  Will these do?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji Schwarz<BR>
Rejected Apprenticeship Applicant, Famille Spofulam <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 10:07:07 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, SD Mooney wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 4:17 -0500 3/12/99, Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu> wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Fteirle.  I think it's only in DGP Solomani & Aslan, though, so it's not<BR>
> >"canon" for any current or forseeable-future official publications.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Ahem. A recent reference - GT Alien Races 2: Aslan, K'Kree and <BR>
> various c**p StarMaster escapees.<BR>
> By David Thomas, Andy Slack and David Pulver<BR>
> <BR>
> Line 1, p5, Chapter 1, The Aslan..... "The Aslan (who call themselves <BR>
> Fteirle)..."<BR>
<BR>
Ah!  I haven't read that yet, if ever.  But so far as I can tell,<BR>
"Fteirle" appears in DGP publications only prior to this, so shouldn't it<BR>
have been part of the "forbidden canon" for GURPS publication purposes?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 23:13:13 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
<BR>
>On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> We all know from watching movies that *all* races find human females<BR>
>> attractive. Its one of the few truly universal elements to all of the known<BR>
>> races. It may be the most important motivator for space travel.<BR>
><BR>
>Yes, but not in OTU!  It's clean family fun!<BR>
><BR>
>Kenji<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<splort><BR>
<BR>
Do you have any idea how painful nasally-expelled warm milk is?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji, may you have an accident with your PMPG!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
PS. If you're a newcomer, hunt the archives for some of Kenji's<BR>
more....interesting inventions.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 07:44:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: GT: Trade routes question<BR>
<BR>
A quick question. I have gotten to the point of doing the minor<BR>
trade routes for the entire Spinward Marches subsector, having <BR>
mapped out the major and feeder routes. GT: Far Trader says to <BR>
use J-2 routes unless a feeder or above would save a jump or more <BR>
or if it is along an x-boat route. Would a minor route then be <BR>
able to use a higher jump route created by the major and feeder<BR>
process? I can't see why it wouldn't but that eventuality was <BR>
not mentioned. If the route is already in existance, my guess is <BR>
that a minor route could use it but I wanted to ask for opinions.<BR>
<BR>
I sent a message to Jim Maclean but he must be busy and I never <BR>
got an answer.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance,<BR>
 <BR>
Terry Mixon<BR>
 <BR>
http://www.ghg.net/tmixon/Trade  <BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 15:47:23 GMT<BR>
From: "tim burt" <canada147@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  SEC: UNCLASSIFIED Government bad, anarchy good<BR>
<BR>
\: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
- - --- "Hughes, Michael"<Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au> wrote:><BR>
>Um, yeah, okay. I thought dat it was just a game,> eh...> =====> KA <BR>
>Schuant><BR>
>A game? JUST A GAME!?!?!!?!?!><BR>
><snip><BR>
No need for us to arise at dawn (your dawn or mine?<BR>
hehe), when I said, "just a game," <snip><BR>
There are philosophy<BR>
degrees, and there is roleplaying. For me, at least, I<BR>
find "fun" does not involve confusing the two.<BR>
    Yes JUST A GAME, but we all play games in real life and our imagination. <BR>
  RPGs form the link between the two as do all expressions of artistic <BR>
endevour.  It is easy to pick on "the Marxist" (I just thought it was better <BR>
to identify my sympathies so that those not interested could ignore the long <BR>
treatise).  My objective is to highlight some of the deeper currents which <BR>
run through contemporary society in the hope of advocating a more open <BR>
gaming milieu.  As I have been actively playing Traveller since the days of <BR>
CT and still find the open-endedness of that milieu to be invigourating.  <BR>
Cannon has to be taken lightly, to complement where the real fun is and that <BR>
is in the act of playing itself.<BR>
    It would seem that many on the list are solely interested in collecting <BR>
minute scraps of data and construct elabourate theories which will effect <BR>
the whole milieu.  Yes, it is fun to uncover the "Secrets" which are buried <BR>
within the text. For me it is it fun to analyze the text, ok?  And, you <BR>
never know a synthesis out of these two tendencies may actually solve a <BR>
"Secret".  Sorry that this was so long but as I said in the original it is <BR>
amusing that some individuals who have not a complete handle on something <BR>
will spout out and out nonsense composed of linking little bits of data.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1440<BR>
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